Consensus Or Accuracy?

Some quick thoughts tonight...

In scanning the inbox and comment section of the blog this evening... I am always amazed at the people who get so worked up if our forecast mentions just a threat of snow or anything out of the ordinary.

Those people seemingly want us to forecast the "partly cloudy, highs in the 50s, low in the 30s" dribble every day in the extended periods, like you find on many web sites. Yes, that is "normal" for December. But, those are simply averages, and our weather here is rarely "normal" any time of the year, except for summer.

Sure, we could go the safe route and forecast "partly sunny, highs in the 50s, lows in the 30s" in the 3 to 7 day time frame. Nobody would notice, and the product would be pretty much worthless. That is carving a weather forecast down to "consensus".

I love what Margaret Thatcher says about consensus:

"To me, consensus seems to be the process of abandoning all beliefs, principles, values and policies. So it is something in which no one believes and to which no one objects."

If I think highs will be in the 50s and lows in the 30s, I will say it here. If I think we will have a winter storm threat, I will say it here. My job is very simple... to tell you what I think will happen based on science. I refuse to get down to a "consensus" level where everything I believe is tossed out and the forecast is worthless. But, for whatever reason those are the forecasts that never generate nasty e-mail messages. CONSENSUS. No one objects.

Consensus is also the reason so many people are afraid to say "Merry Christmas" this time of the year.

Enough of the soapbox... we are watching the 00Z runs come in this evening. Will have the regularly scheduled post and video by tomorrow morning at 7:00!
Posted by Anna  
on December 13, 2005, 9:03 pm
Nicely said...and Merry Christmas!

Anna

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Posted by  
on December 13, 2005, 9:03 pm
LET IT SNOW!!!!!! James, you are the best at what you do, don't think otherwise... I'm really disturbed at how Merry Christmas is being replaced with Happy Holidays.... Just a sign at how our society is changing for the worse...

Keep it up James...
Merry Christmas!!!!

-Jared- Hueytown

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Posted by Jason  
on December 13, 2005, 9:05 pm
Well put James. I think you made that about as simple as you could make it. I know some people are still gonna prove it to be over their heads by makeing thoughtless comments though. Keep up the good work.

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Posted by  
on December 13, 2005, 9:08 pm
MERRY CHRISTMAS, James, thank you for not following the "norm" of the other weathermen. you do a wonderful job. keep up the good work

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Posted by  
on December 13, 2005, 9:11 pm
First of ...A very MERRY CHRISTMAS to you James, as a matter of fact I just came from a great Childrens Christmas Program out at ClearBranch in Argo... It was a wonderful thing to watch all of these young faces, lighten up and sing happy Birthday to JESUS.. They did a wonderful job, i have some great video of it. These Children had so much fun, singing about the Birth of CHRIST, and just being Kids.....

James , great post, as usual ... Consensus says.... Cant wait for that Live shot... Are you going to be there or not?? I mean , are you going to leave your bloggers out there to dance all by themselves... YOu know Dave and Im not sure, but you have to get a bowl of that Chilli...

All kidding aside, Dave and I had a great conversation about you last night.... He was talking about how much the children there at your church love you and all the good work that you do with them . You are a Godsend for so many people .. I know you dont like to here these things , but you are...You mean a lot for so many in the area. God bless you and your family. Maybe he will help you out here and get some of these people off your back and give you a good story to cover....

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Posted by John T.  
on December 13, 2005, 9:16 pm
I love it when you speak you mind. I know some folks can't stand it unless they are being critics or griping they just are not happy. But James, you going "out on a limb" is what we love about you. You are the "tops". MERRY CHRISTMAS, JESUS LOVES YOU!

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Posted by  
on December 13, 2005, 9:19 pm
John , i believe you are out there on that limb too, I "HOPE" that is a big limb, cause there are a lot of us heading out on that limb right now... I "HOPE" it can support us ....

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Posted by  
on December 13, 2005, 9:17 pm
merry CHRISTmas!!!

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Posted by  
on December 13, 2005, 9:20 pm
OK JAMES.. We , the Bloggers are going to be watching tonight at 10 and we need some buisness in here... You think you can give us a plug.... Well the Blog that is... Lets see how many new names showup....Can I Get an AMEN

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Posted by  
on December 13, 2005, 9:22 pm
I told Rusty last night that James reads the blog. We all know that on the blog and the map discussions that James looks at models and trends. And we here on the blog have fun with it. We all want to see snow. We all know that we cannot control the weather. Most of us knows who does. If you want to be a 50/30 kind of person, email me and I will give you a couple of great web sites. Merry Christmas to all. And, to all...LET IT SNOW!!!

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Posted by Greg  
on December 13, 2005, 9:26 pm
OHHH BOY, here we go. Here is the deal, Can anyone tell me what the high was today?? And then, can anyone tell me the low for last night?? Let me help you, High of 51.1 and Low of 30.0. WOW 50's and 30's. Most of the time in the EARLY winter that is exactly what we get. James, people get frustrated when you ratio of accurate to non-accurate forcasts is low compared to other TV Weather "Folks". When their accuracy is better than yours, they will begin to listen to them and falsly accuse you of making forcasts for TV ratings. Which, by the way, I think is a stupid comment when those poeple say that. Anyway, keep up the good work. Just keep in mind those "consensus" people have a good reason for thinking what they think. Because most of the time, where they get their weather info turn out to be accurate. For example, why exactly did you forcast snow for Saturday and Sunday last night? What happened is you got a bunch of people excited about seeing snow (and you STILL have it in your forcast for Sunday). AND THEN,, 12 hours later on your noon news, Jason Simpson calls it off totally. Well, its challenges your validity. Take it out of the forcast, call for a cold rain, and lets move on to hoping for snow next Tuesday.

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Posted by  
on December 13, 2005, 9:30 pm
Hey Dave.... I hope you are making a big pot of Chilli, cause we are getting a lot of new members to IWIWAM here in the blog... for all of you that are new... The IWIWAM club is a seven step program for those of us that like to come in here and act like we know what we are doing.... it stands for "I WISH I WERE A METEOROLOGIST" ...But Dave.... Tell Brother "J" I said hello, and I would love for him to meet my kids... Im not sure he would want to meet them , but I know I would love for them to meet him...... Love ya Brother.....

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Posted by  
on December 13, 2005, 9:31 pm
Don't be too hard on folks James. (unless their attacks are personal and curse-word filled.. in that case, be as hard as you have to).

The reason people get their feelings hurt about snow is because there is a type of "magic" about snowfall in birmingham and so many look forward to it. And many people are simply tired of so many busted forecasts (not just from ABC3340... from ALL bham forecasting agencies including NWS). Every year snow is threatened... Every year the Alabama map is displayed on TV divided into snowfall zones with "3-5 inches" displayed for Tuscaloosa to Birmingham or "4-6 inches" from Cullman to Fort Payne and many many times NOTHING happens. I mean nothing. The cold air comes, but is 200 miles behind the rain. or the rain is heavy but the cold air just isn't as cold as forecast.

It's the whole cry wolf thing. People just don't take winter weather threats seriously anymore and I can hardly blame them. Just too many incorrect forecasts. Often VASTLY incorrect.

I would NEVER expect you just to go the "Accuweather route" and forecast highs in the 50s and lows in the 30s. What makes ABC3340 and your weather team so special is that you ARE willing to take chances. However, I do expect you to consider history in addition to science. You know how many times the models have forecasted impressive snowfall amounts for this area and how often that has simply not materialized. often not even a single flake is seen. I'm glad you make your forecasts "based on science" but please remember that science is imperfect and history has shown us that ANY forecast that calls for winter weather here in Bham deserves only a very small amount of confidence...ESPECIALLY anything beyond 48 hours from the event.

In any case, I come to this blog b/c it's fun to share opinions and certainly, that winter storm WILL come someday and I'll be thrilled about it when it gets here! Regardless, keep taking chances b/c even if you are a little too risky in forecasting, it does keep ABC3340 interesting and when the next winter weather threat does materialize, I'm sure we bloggers will be the first to know about it and be prepared for it.

Thanks for everything you do!

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Posted by   www
on December 13, 2005, 10:16 pm
I agree with Andy, I will say the NWS is usually the last to forecast snow. If we had one snow for every ten threats, I would be very happy. I do feel Birmingham will get a nice snow in the next 5 years. :)

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Posted by  
on December 13, 2005, 9:35 pm
I used to love those 7 step programs. Much to my dismay I tripped on step 6. AMEN and let it snow!!!

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Posted by Dawn  
on December 13, 2005, 9:41 pm
I read, but rarely post...I just wanna say one thing: MERRY CHRISTMAS!

(Oh, and I HOPE it snows!)

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Posted by  
on December 13, 2005, 9:38 pm
Hey James Merry Christmas and well done. And Greg the high today was 51.0 the low since midnight 26.0 with heavy frost.

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Posted by  
on December 13, 2005, 9:40 pm
Hey Greg I don't recall James ever saying it was going to snow Saturday and Sunday.

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Posted by Greg  
on December 13, 2005, 9:41 pm
Michael, NWS reports a low of 30.0, but I did see some frost on my apartment

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Posted by Jason  
on December 13, 2005, 9:45 pm
Andy, although I don't agree with everything you said, I do respect your opinion b/c you were respectful with yours.

Greg, only 4 out of 12 days this month have been 50's 30's days, thats 33%, not even close to "MOST" of the days.

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Posted by  
on December 13, 2005, 9:47 pm
Fine comments Greg. In fact, had I not been writing mine while you were posting yours, I likely wouldn't have bothered with mine at all. I don't think you and I are negative or opposed to anyone... We're just honest and realistic about this stuff. Still, I enjoy all the personalities here.. even the ones who recklessly hope for winter weather b/c they shall have their victories too ;) This is really a fun community.

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Posted by  
on December 13, 2005, 9:54 pm
Eh...Isn't "History" broken everyday? I remember back in March '93 when history was broken, AND alot of others had to hurry up and jump on the snow train with James. I'm remembering that right arn't I? OH Hi everyone and Merry Christmas! Long time reader first time poster :).

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Posted by  
on December 13, 2005, 9:54 pm
Ok its time for James to go to work... Lets all just see what he has to say tonight.. and look forward to the 00 z run .. We may be in for another flip flop.. who knows... James knock em dead tonight..and I "HOPE"you got your suspenders the way you like em...

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Posted by  
on December 13, 2005, 10:00 pm
Very true Skys. However, that was an exception and you don't forecast weather by remembering occasional exceptions. That would be like saying a young boy was a fine young man because he once gave flowers to an elderly lady and ignoring the fact that he beats up his friends daily. (Ok, the analogy is a *bit* much)

Obviously, there have been accurate forecasts and obviously there have been several major winter weather events in Birmingham. However, if you're going to be objective about it, you must weigh the number of times this happens vs the # of times it has been forecast. And the ratio is simply disturbing. The main thing is we just need better technology and more specifically, more info about the atmosphere. Man, that would be fun to work with those models and try to create better ones.

Oh well, I'll just have to continue my lowly post as a Spanish teacher ;)

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Posted by John T.  
on December 13, 2005, 10:48 pm
The way I see the whole thing around weather/nature, whatever the time of season it is, is that GOD likes to "toy" or "play" around with the computers. Still showing us he is the one that controls and has all undercontrol. (He never said it would be easy) Like James has said before he is just in the "market" of trying to figure out the crystal ball. I myself, when it come to winter weather in AL. take the forecasts or threats with a grain of salt so to speak. However, again, I'm so glad that James gives us these possibilities of what could take place down the road. Everyone knows dang good & well that IF the snow, ice, etc, happened and it was not mentioned then you know what would "hit the fans" and then those very ones would be saying no one gave them warning. So James, if you think its a possibility keep own typing about it. You know your job. Its just to bad that winter weather in Al. is just so tricky. MERRY CHRISTMAS

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Posted by Mikey  
on December 14, 2005, 12:22 am
Some people on here live in a dream world. We have to take the weather we are given, although it would help if forecasters would not start prognosticating things that are "VOODOO".

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Posted by   www
on December 14, 2005, 1:41 am
MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL. Keep up the great work James. Lets bring Merry Christmas back, and not happy holidays! And Let it snow!!!!!

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Posted by  
on December 14, 2005, 5:55 am
i just got up, and saw this.........

James, keep up the good work - we like knowing what the trends are - hope you and your family have a Very Merry Christmas!!

ok rusty - I am starting my dancing again!!!!!!!!

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Posted by  
on December 14, 2005, 5:57 am
Oh, and I wanted to tell Andy, I understand your feelings for snow and the lack thereof, and I love the way your posts have a nice, gentle ring to it :-)


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Posted by  
on December 14, 2005, 6:31 am
James, it's a shame you have to get hate mail for doing your job. The folks bickering about the forecast are the same people that would be complaining if scenarios like "Hope" actually verify, and you didn't say anything a week in advance. Don't let a few bad apples ruin what you have going on here with this blog.

-Jack Watkins

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Posted by  
on December 14, 2005, 6:39 am
Good job James! I can't remember any problems I've had with any of your weather statements, whether forcasted or other. I think you put plenty of disclaimers with your statements that cover you well. If it was me, and I had a problem, I wouldn't start complaining, I'd just go somewhere that I thought did a better job. But I'm happy here.

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Posted by New Mike  
on December 14, 2005, 6:43 am
JACK!!! Glad to see you made it over here!! I'm Mike from TalkWeather!

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Posted by   www
on December 14, 2005, 8:52 am
Merry Christmas one and all! Really don't know what all the hoopla is about..folks got windows, can you stick you head out the door, check the weather for yourself!

I think 33/40 has the best weather, hands down. I talk to so many people who listen to other sources including the dreaded Weather Channel (my Mom) clings to this one..those folks don't have a clue most of the time. Hubby got one on his cell phone and it's wrong over half the time. I actually have folks call me and ask the weather. My bad right knee is usually right, hurts when the pressure changes which indicates weather change. Nailed all the hurricanes this season and 9 out of 10 get the snow right as well.

Good job guys keep up the posting..

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Posted by  
on December 14, 2005, 9:43 am
Hey James,

I thought I heard you say that the temp on tues will be 85 degrees. Sunny and dry with a cool southern breeze. Beautiful blue sky.....I am game with 3 seasons a year spring, summer, and fall.

I know there are snow birds outthere....I'd like to give them 1 good one a year...

but....

I live in Alabama and like it hot. Please tell Mr. Winter to drop one good snow storm and leave.

Either way he's got about 90 days before he's gonna have to leave anyway. I'll buy Mr. Winter a first class ticket to north pole.

Merry Christmas!!!

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